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16 Jul
Matt has a good post on the recent push to make people use PHP 5. He makes several good points, and I’m just jumping on the same bandwagon.. forcing a version # change, just because the engine works better is pointless. Going into the political arena a little bit, making people switch to PHP 5 is like changing CAFE standards, it won’t do a thing for the billions of cars already out there, and it won’t change the basic dependence on crude oil. It’s just a lot of hot air to make the choir sing to themselves, again.
I’ve been running PHP 5 on my systems for the past 3 years, without any issues. Even some of the code I wrote in PHP 4, works flawlessly (with the same bugs) in PHP 5 as PHP4. Which brings me to the main point.. End Users don’t care or want to know what the engine is doing . If the application does something they want, they’ll use it. If it’s easy to install and setup, they’ll use it. PHP 5 as a language doesn’t bring anything to the end user experience. Sure, the code may be faster, more secure, and has better json/xml/stream/nameyourthing support, but the if the application already gives the user what he needs, why should the underlying language change? Web 2.0 is old so, Web 3.11, Web 95, Web XP whatever you want to call it, will force a change in paradigms, this change will probably necessitate the upgrade, not a decree from a legion of uber programmers. Those guys are doing what seems like a thankless job right now, in terms of laying the framework and foundation, for what will be the next “revolution”. Old applications that work well, and have millions of installs, won’t just force people to upgrade to PHP 5 when they become PHP 5 only.
If phpMyAdmin does a lot of the stuff most MySQL users need, right now in PHP 4, what will PHP 5 do that will make people switch? Nothing, when the PHP 5 only version of phpMyAdmin comes out, all you’ll see is the number of downloads for the PHP 4 version continue to climb, or nothing, people will just not switch. The only thing that will help convince a host or an end user to upgrade to PHP 5, is if “phpMyAdmin (the PHP 5 edition)” did something that took advantage of MySQL 5.1 or 6 exclusively, OR they developed a killer new feature that every MySQL user would want to use.
“PHP 5 gives you cleaner and faster code”, this saying is completely pointless. If your app is already being used by millions of users, you have millions of users who think your code is cleaner and faster than the other guys.. it’s not broke.. what are you trying to fix?
Also, one last thing to remember is that a lot of PHP 5 features were requested by “enterprises”, that do not release their code to the public. In the past two years, I’ve talked with at least 5 organizations that use PHP 5 on their public facing sites, but do not advertise that to the public, yet the number of people served per month, is in the billions (if you combine all 5 organizations). The rate of adoption for PHP 5 is fine. The reason why people don’t see the need to upgrade, is because their needs are being met.
Find new needs, and meet them in PHP 5 only land, this is what we in the PHP community pride ourselves for right? We’re coming up with the cool new applications, unlike other languages and their frameworks which just provide you with a really nice and fast way to do the same old thing?
10 Responses for "On “On PHP” and version numbers"
Hello Vidyut,
Thanks for your comments about phpMyAdmin. As a developer of this software, I must add that there will be another reason why people would want to switch.
phpMyAdmin 3 (the PHP 5-only version that will also drop support for MySQL
Marc,
Looks like your comment got cut off, please try again? :).
[...] Vid had a post yesterday where he writes about his concerns regarding the push to upgrade to PHP5. If you have not heard already, the PHP developers announced a couple of weeks ago they will be discontinuing support for PHP4. The reaction to this has been mixed, and I was perplexed at the developers who seem to be against the change. While most of the applications already work for PHP5, they just don’t understand the point of forcing people to upgrade. [...]
… phpMyAdmin 3 (the PHP 5-only version that will also drop support for MySQL
phpMyAdmin 3 (the PHP 5-only version that will also drop support for MySQL before 5.0) will be the one that contains bug fixes; the 2.x series will have only security fixes.
(Note: the comment was cut because I was using the less-than symbol !)
Thanks for the debugging marc :).
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I think this article is rather silly. If your looking at the need to upgrade from a end users point of view and you have something working in php 4 or even 1, then why ever upgrade? I can only assume that matt or whomever it is that made such a statement is developing little ad hoc scripts as opposed to large scale business systems such as CRM’s or ERP’s, etc. PHP 5 is a massive increment to php from an OO point of view. If you devlope such large systems and your not utlising OO then your giveing your self a maintence nightmare amongst other things! Maybe for little scripts it makes little difference, but for large systems that have a library of 200+ classes, i think PHP 5 is considerably better, and If i want to provide my customers a more robust, efficiently maintained system, then PHP 5 is a no brainer! I mean sersiously with that attitude why did we ever invetnt cars, you can still move by walking!
Kishan,
Your comparison between walking and cars is not even remotely related for reason I think even you see as obvious.
I have written CMS systems, large repositories and extreme traffic sites all without a single line of OO code. All of these applications were easy to maintain by *others* as well as myself. You can never argue OO code is clean simply because it is OO code. It simply changes the spelling of code sOOp. Tracking down the purpose of a class function which has been removed in one place, re-added in another, then extended in another is utter hell. Some times I find myself wondering if OO coders are gleefully obfuscating their code on purpose.
PHP5 eats up more RAM per thread than PHP4 and runs ALL code slower (albeit not nearly as slow as 5.0 did) in a direct side-by-side comparison. I once switched to PHP5 on one of my extreme traffic sites and instantly the server nearly locked up due to the extra (almost double!) RAM per thread and the added 10-50ms added to each transaction. These figures alone make PHP5 an anti-upgrade in my book. Upgrades should brings faster responses using less overhead, not more. For the select few ‘true’ new features in PHP5, it has become bloatware. If Zend wished to extend PHP into a Java wish-I-was, they should have created a new product instead of force everyone into their newfound bloatworld.
I agree PHP5 has some much wanted features (XML handling and DB-independent functions), but to say OOP support is worth the added bloat is more accurately analogized with:
Zend (with PHP5) Installed a camper on every truck and enlarged the engine to make up for lost mobility. Sure, it is now more powerful, but what if you never needed the camper? You now have a gas guzzler which goes the same speed as before. The camper could have always been offered as an add-on (aka: extension).
Edward,
I’m curious about your slow response times with PHP 5 vs PHP 4.
1. Where are these benchmarks?
Secondly, no one can force you to use OOP, you can still write procedural code with PHP5, but if you were trying to write OO code in PHP4, you’ll find PHP 5 as much better to write OO code in. Going back to your truck analogy, I think you can say that with PHP5, the option to have the camper is there, and the camper you do get if you choose buy it, is much better than the camper in the version before.
But, I am curious to see the code and the benchmarks regarding the slow down between 4 and 5.
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